WE’VE ALL HEARD about what plants and other features figure into making a garden for the birds, or a pollinator garden. But what about a frog garden?
I’m crazy about frogs and would like to think my place is one such habitat. So I was delighted to get an email recently from today’s guest, Jim Sirch, with the subject line “gardening for frogs.” Yes, please, I thought, and got to talking with Jim about how to be more amphibian-friendly in the way we create and care for our home landscapes.
Jim is a trained naturalist and vice president of the Connecticut Horticultural Society, who recently retired as education coordinator from the Yale Peabody Museum in New Haven. Jim has a deep understanding of geology, plants and wildlife and how they interact within a particular ecosystem, and writes about some of that on his blog BeyondYourBackDoor dot com.
He co-founded a native plant seed library at his local public library and also founded a local chapter of Frog Watch USA, a national community science project to identify and track frog populations. He’s passionate about helping others decrease lawn and rewild their yards to welcome a diversity of creatures, including frogs. (That’s a pair of wood frogs at Margaret’s in the photo above, in the mating embrace called amplexus.)
Read along as you listen to the March 10, 2025 edition of my public-radio show and podcast using the player below. You can subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts here).
amphibian-friendly gardens, with jim sirch
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Margaret Roach: Hi, Jim. I’m so glad to meet a frog gardener.
Jim Sarch: Oh, great to be here, Margaret,
Margaret: Because I just love them. I don’t know why; I just love them. And here all these years I thought I was the only person who thought of it that way, so I was just, as I said in the introduction, delighted to get your email. [Laughter.] So from your background that I just also explained in the introduction, you obviously know a lot about a lot of different organisms and animals and different species and so forth, plants and animals. Why amphibians? Why are you thinking about amphibians right now?
Jim: Yeah. Well, as an order of animals, they’re getting hit pretty hard by various factors, including climate change. Habitat loss is a real big one, and insecticide and pesticides. So worldwide, scientists have noticed like a 40 percent decline in the world species. So yeah, anything we can do to help them in our yards, in our gardens, in our outdoor areas would be great.
Margaret: Yes. And the impacts of climate change, apparently on amphibians, I guess they’re cold-blooded animals, yes? So they can’t regulate their body temperatures. And so climate change is having, I’ve read in some places, almost like double the rate of impact on them on some other forms of animals, some other orders of animal.
Jim: In fact, to think about the species such as wood frogs and spring peepers that come to vernal pools, these temporary puddles, these temporary ponds that are in the woods, and then they dry up often by August or September. So there’s a race to develop their young. And so with increasingly wacky weather, if we have a lot of drying, real drought times, and we did here in Connecticut last summer, they may have problems to develop in time if their vernal pools dry up, this could be a problem. [Above, a spring peeper calling; photo by Justin Meissen, CC BY-SA 2.0.]
Margaret: And you say vernal pools, and these are temporary water features. And it’s important because if I’m one of those little frogs that you just mentioned, and I want to lay my eggs for the next generation, I don’t want to do it in a larger body of water, a permanent body of water, that has fish who want to eat those eggs. I’m oversimplifying. I’m not a scientist; I’m oversimplifying, but that for me was a big aha. Why use a shallow, temporary water feature? Well, guess what? It has no fish residents in it, so that’s a good thing. So before we go any further, frog versus toad, people think, well, one’s wartier [laughter], one’s on land more and one’s in the water more. It’s not quite that simple.
Jim: Yeah, actually toads are a kind of frog and yeah, you can look at some of the physical characteristics. They have drier skin and those things people call warts are actually glands, and they have short hops, and their eggs are long strands in the water, whereas frogs have clumps or clusters of eggs. Those are some of the major, major differences.
Margaret: And within the frog end of the frog world [laughter], the different species are more or less aquatic. Like I think bullfrogs are strictly aquatic, yes? You’re always going to find them in or right near water. Again, I’m not a scientist, but whereas some frogs can spend more time the trees, or are terrestrial and can be on land a lot more and so forth, and even sometimes take refuge in the offseason in litter or whatever, or burrow a little bit. Different frog species have different… It’s not all just toads are on land and frogs are in the water, either. It’s not a delineation like that, is it?
Jim: Exactly. Yeah. So even green frogs and bullfrogs that are very much aquatic will come out onto land, particularly in rainstorms and moist areas, and they’ll hunt for food there, too. But primarily they’re hanging out next to or in water, as you say.
Margaret: And then on the other hand, even the toads require the water for reproduction, yes?
Jim: That’s right. Every frog and toad needs to breed in water that name amphibian, meaning amphibious or double life; it’s Greek, I think a Greek term. But there are some salamanders that actually are terrestrial. They’re born… like our red-backed salamanders that we have in our state and throughout lays its eggs in moist logs. So that’s a little different. [Above, an Eastern red-backed salamander at Margaret’s.]
Margaret: I didn’t realize that that was the one. And it’s interesting because now you said that’s one that I do not find in my in-ground water features. I find the spotted and I find the … well, again, every time I think about this one, I think of the red eft stage of the-
Jim: Oh, Eastern newt.
Margaret: …Eastern newt, yes. We know it most of all—those of us who live in its range—know most of all from its on-land part of its life cycle when it’s the red eft, the little charming little orangey-red creature. But it has an aquatic stage at the beginning and end of its life.
Jim: Exactly. When it’s in that land stage, they’re about 25 times more toxic than the other. And so that red coloration is a nice warning coloration to other animals that don’t eat me.
Margaret: That’s interesting. Huh. Yeah, I didn’t know that. I mean, in plants [and insects], of course, certain pigments prevent predation, herbivory, etc. And so I didn’t realize that that was the case in that salamander: “Don’t eat me. Please do not eat me. I am not tasty.” Right.
So how does a place… We’re talking about the home-garden landscape. Mine is a little more rural, and so one of the first things I did, and I did not do it to benefit amphibians and I did not do it to benefit birds because I didn’t know anything. This is back like 40 years ago, but I was a city girl. I bought a country place, and the idea of the sound of water was very appealing to me. So I dug, with help, a couple of in-ground water features, substantial-sized water features, that would have moving water in season and so forth.
And early on I saw creatures were in them, and I read—there was not internet [laughter] to search—I read in field guides and in real books that I couldn’t let them freeze over or the creatures who were slumbering in there would suffocate. And again, I’m oversimplifying, but so I kept de-icers to keep a hole in the ice and things like that. So basically from very early in my gardening adventures, here again selfishly, for my own enjoyment, I added 365-day access to water.
Jim: That’s great.
Margaret: And that changed everything. Again, I didn’t do it for that reason, but it ended up turning me into a frog gardener [laughter].
Jim: There you go. That’s great.
Margaret: Is water really Number 1 thing, or what are some of the attributes we need?
Jim: Yeah, well, so you can think of frogs as in any kind of wildlife needing the basic needs of a habitat, and it’s food, water, shelter and space. And so water is a real big one, definitely. Because if you have a water feature, it doesn’t have to be a huge pond or lake. It could be something that you dig out yourself or put in a pond liner. That certainly is great way to bring them in. And to have them overwinter, they need to have a little bit of depth, a couple of feet would be great. They kind of hang out at the bottom through the winter.
These are the aquatic species that we talked about, green frogs and bullfrogs. Yeah. Wood frogs will sometimes do that as well, but mostly in the leaf litter. And so food would be… Well, think about planting native plants, because they will then in turn be fed on by insects and other critters, slugs and snails, and those are food for frogs.
So frogs and toads really are great for pests, and they do eat slugs and snails, so that’s great to have. But if you think about those food webs, if you’re establishing kind of a mini-food web in your yard, that’s exactly what they need. And shelter you can provide with having dense vegetation. Native vegetation is probably best, and kind of over plant. Don’t have a plant here with a big space of mulch. Just to have big densely packed areas that would then provide that moisture gradient to have more moisture for frogs and toads to be in.
You know the No Mow May, that was a couple years ago, was a big deal? [Above: Wood frog photo by Judy Gallagher, CC BY 2.0.]
Margaret: Right. Not to mow your property; not to mow your lawn, in May, right? It came from England. It was a tradition started in England.
Jim: Yes, exactly. And that turned out that it didn’t really attract a whole lot of native plants because sometimes you might get some invasives in, or just lawn, just turf. But it’s funny when I did that, and I think I’m still going to do it, because the grass, long grass, really attracted for me pickerel frogs. They came in, and when I did mow a section of it very slowly—don’t race through with a mower—I did find like four or five just jumping around through there. So pickerel frogs are a species that will come in and hang out in sort of a meadow environment.
Margaret: And I think my observation from having the water gardens: It’s not like someone would dig a swimming pool and have a big patio around it where they put their chaise lounges to lie on while everyone was swimming. You don’t want that type of environment. You want, near the water’s edge, to also have places where one can go and hide a little bit or get a little shade, or as you say, the moist soil; there can be some moister soil and so forth.
And so just like if you’re feeding birds, it’s good for them to be able to get pretty quickly—not right next to the bird feeder, but pretty nearby—to some shelter, some shrub. Do you know what I mean?
Jim: Exactly.
Margaret: So it is the same kind of thing, but on ground level, to have it be a little bit of planting nearby, a little looser nearby that water feature as well. And I noticed that’s what seems to really work.
Jim: Definitely. Yeah. So those emergents, those edge plants, are really great. Marsh marigold would be one early plant for the spring and brings in queen bumblebees when they first emerge. Cardinal flower likes damp conditions; it would do O.K. there. Pickerelweed is a great native plant, and there is a specialist bee that comes to pickerel weed. It’s called the pickerelweed longhorn bee. And so that’s another great native plant that sort of an edge species you could put in, as well floating plants.
And it’s funny that you go to nurseries selling water features and so forth, almost every plant is exotic. And I think there’s a real opening for nursery folks to start a native-plant aquatic-plant business, because it may be hard to find some of these natives, but-
Margaret: Because you’re right, most of the pond plants that we’ve used, a lot of them aren’t native.
Jim: There’s some great native floating plants, too. American white waterlily, Nymphaea odorata, is a great one. Yellow water lily, Nuphar variegata, some beautiful flowers that could be put in, too. And then you also might want to think about oxygenators, those plants that are submerged in the water. There is a native species to the Eastern U.S. and Northeast, it’s called coon tail, and that just provides oxygen into the water, particularly if you don’t have a pump. And then tape-weed (Vallisneria americana) is another one; that would be another plant that could be provided. So there’s a number of them that you look up and maybe your local extension where you live, university extension, might give you some thoughts on that.
Margaret: So this time of year, we’re almost in March when we’re speaking, and everybody’s missing in action. I can’t see any of my amphibian friends right now. It hasn’t been consistently warm enough for anybody to sort of poke their faces up or sun themselves on the stones alongside the edges of the water gardens or whatever. But soon. So they’re kind of in this, is it brumation? It’s not a full dormancy down there.
And I leave a little muck in the bottom—I never change the water in my water gardens. I am sort of cultivating the water to be what it is. I do shade it with floating plants, so that I don’t get a lot of algae growth, but I don’t empty it and clean it, again, like it’s a swimming pool. That’s not the point. And I scoop out at the end of the winter. I scoop out around sometime in March any heavy accumulation of leaves and things that have fallen in, but I do leave a bunch of it down there in the bottom. It’s a good place to tuck into, I think, in the winter. [The larger of two in-ground water gardens at Margaret’s, above.]
Jim: It is. That’s exactly right. Yep. Yeah, it’d be really good. It’s a good place for that.
Margaret: So suddenly everybody’s going to be coming up and it’s going to be crazy mating season and there’s going to be lots of talking [laughter].
Jim: Oh, yes.
Margaret: That’s the thing that I just love about them is their vocalizations, first of all, which are hilarious and distinctive to each species. But also, I don’t know, there are mating behaviors and so forth. I mean, I love watching all the competition that goes on at pondside, and who’s in charge and who’s the biggest, toughest guy kind of in the neighborhood. And I mean, it’s a wonderful way to observe life at work. That’s what I love about them.
Jim: It is. And it’s usually about the first frogs to come out in the East, the Northeast, actually. One would be the wood frog, and you need a rain that actually starts in the afternoon and goes into the evening. It has to be about above 44 degrees Fahrenheit; I guess that’s the number. I was out searching—it was close to that, and I was out last night looking for them, but it was just a little too cold. And the rain didn’t continue.
But yes, they’ll come into the pools to breed. It’s the males that call, and if you ever are by a pond, or some people have them right around them where they live, but it’s interesting to listen to them, too. Like spring peepers, when you give that “peep “sound, and the chorus is ear-splitting when you’re right next to it [laughter]. But sometimes you hear males and they actually change pitch to tell the females, “Hey, I’m a little bit different, so come on over here.”
Margaret: Right, right. “I am the best guy.”
No, it’s wonderful. So we didn’t talk about chemicals, and people are obsessed with mosquitoes and they say, “Oh, you have water in your garden, Margaret, you must have terrible mosquitoes.” All of this worry, worry, worry about mosquitoes. And I don’t have any mosquito problem. And I hope it’s partly because I don’t use any chemicals in the garden. I don’t kill bugs. I don’t do that. And so I rely on my companions, the birds and the dragonflies and the frogs and so forth, to help me with control of insects. And it seems to all work out. But that’s another worry that people have. And also I think when we’re going to be encouraging amphibians and other animals, of course as well, but these delicate animals, we have to be organic gardeners I think as well.
Jim: Yes, wherever possible. But what you have, you probably have a nice aquatic food web. You’ll have dragonfly, dragonfly nymphs. Yeah, dragonfly nymphs would be one that would kill, would eat, mosquito larvae. So yes, the more different species you have, the better. And that can really help with mosquito control.
Some people use the mosquito dunks [above]. It’s actually a natural-occurring, in soil, a bacterium that actually attacks mosquito larvae. And that can be used if you don’t have a setup like you have. So it doesn’t seem to harm frogs as far as I know, or I’ve heard. But again, use something like that with caution. But everything else, particularly in your plants, if you’re using insecticides and herbicides in your yard, in your lawns or in your plants, they can get into your water features in your pond.
Margaret: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jim: There’s really, yeah. And there are some that are really, really toxic to amphibians.
Margaret: Any other advice in particular that when people want to be more mindful of making amphibians at home in the garden? I mean the water, I think you said it can even be small. I think I read something you sent me. I think you’ve even used bubbler, kind of a smaller setup, or our mutual friend Julie Zickefoose, her WarblerFall, for instance, a seasonal water feature. A little bit of water’s a good thing even, isn’t it?
Jim: It’s interesting that you should say that, because I had a little bubbler and I had it on the ground, and that can attract a lot of different birds besides the frogs. That sound of water is really attractive to lots of different wildlife. So yeah, I had a pickerel frog sitting in mine one day. I was like, “Whoa, that’s interesting that you’re here.” Probably needed to get some moisture. And so even something like that is a great thing to do. And yeah, Julie Zickefoose has that WarblerFall, and you can find her plans online for that. So that can bring in some amazing different warblers, different birds that you would never see at a birdfeeder.
Margaret: Yes, exactly. Are there frogs, you know like with birds, how people are like, “Oh, I saw such and such!” We’re both in the Northeast. Are there frogs or toads that you’re like excited when you see it because it’s unusual or something? Are there sort of holy grail [laughter] like there is in birding?
Jim: Yeah, there are a few different ones that they may be at the top of their home range, and so not as plentiful as others. And some may be declining because of the habitat loss. There’s a few species in Connecticut that they actually like sandy environments. One is the Fowler’s toad. That’s probably the first place that you would want to build a house, so with development happening, those are kind of getting hit hard. Hearing one of those would be great.
And I just wanted to mention a great national program. You did mention in the beginning Frog Watch USA, and it’s just going out and listening for frogs and toads for three minutes after you sit still for two minutes once a week, and entering that data into a national database. And that’s helpful for scientists to know when frogs start singing or calling in the beginning of the season. That could change through climate change and so forth. And the presence and absence of species in various wetlands, particularly if it’s done long term. If you go to Frog Watch USA, you could find a chapter in your part of the country. [Above: Fowler’s toad photo by Rstanton13, CC BY-SA 4.0.]
Margaret: And just mentioned toad houses, toad abodes, is that what you call them? Toad abodes? So I’ve got to learn more about that, too. But I appreciate your making the time today, Jim, to talk about my favorite creatures. I shouldn’t say my favorite; I love all the creatures, but I don’t know, there’s something about frogs that just cracks me up every time. So I just love them. So thank you so much, and I’ll talk to you again soon, I hope
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MY WEEKLY public-radio show, rated a “top-5 garden podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper in the UK, began its 15th year in March 2024. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station in the nation. Listen locally in the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Eastern, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the March 10, 2025 show using the player near the top of this transcript. You can subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts here).
